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Alex Hunt:
Hi everyone. Welcome to the Texas Family Lawyer Podcast. I'm Alex Hunt, a Texas family lawyer in the greater Houston area. I'm the managing attorney at Hunt Law Firm and today I'm joined by David C. Adams. He is the senior associate attorney and lead attorney at our League City office. Welcome, David.
David C. Adams:
Good morning. Thank you.
Alex Hunt:
Today we're going to be talking about how to choose the right divorce lawyer. And we have come up with nine things that folks need to consider. You're an attorney that cuts to the chase and jumps right in, so we're going to do the same today. So I'll kick it over to you for the first thing that folks need to consider.
David C. Adams:
Well, I think one of the most important things that people need to consider when they're trying to choose a divorce lawyer is to think about what they want out of the litigation. Obviously, a lot of times when people come to us, especially if there's a divorce involved and when their children are involved, emotions can be high. I think you have to make a decision about are you really seeking something like retribution out of the process? Do you want something that's quick and easy and as painless as possible? Because I found that when I do consultations with clients, you get very different answers even early on and in the process about what they're looking for. And I think it can be important to have that conversation so that you can not only manage their expectations, but give the client what they want.
Alex Hunt:
Yeah, absolutely. And we will get folks that come to our office and they're looking for different things. So we'll have people that will come and they'll say, "I want a shark. I want a bulldog." And I hear that and I hear what they're looking for. They want somebody that represents their interests.
David C. Adams:
Right.
Alex Hunt:
If they're looking for somebody who is just going to drive up costs, that's going to make things contentious and litigious for absolutely no reason, then I'll tell them, "I mean, I'm not your guy."
David C. Adams:
Sure.
Alex Hunt:
But most folks, what they're looking for is somebody who is solutions-oriented. And so what we do is make sure that we are solutions-oriented. We're looking for the path of least resistance in order to get the relief that the person is looking for, but if push comes to shove and we go to mediation, we're unable to settle and it's time to go to trial, we're going to be ready. I think that that's the most important thing that you could look for in a lawyer or somebody who's going to represent your interest, is going to fight for you, is going to protect you, is going to take the path of least resistance, is not going to try to run up your bill. But when push comes to shove and it's like we have no other choice but to go to trial, they're going to be ready.
David C. Adams:
Absolutely. I think a good word to think about when you are choosing a lawyer is about how pragmatic are they, right? I mean it shouldn't be about the lawyer's ego. And it really, in a lot of ways, probably shouldn't be about the clients either. It should be about having a clear set of goals, whether that's to keep costs down or whether that's to, say, try to get a bigger property division in the other side, or maybe like in a lot of cases maybe it's about the kids and what kind of custody schedule you're looking for and who's going to make important decisions for them. And so I think those are important things to establish, especially early on in the process when you are talking to a lawyer and thinking about what kind of lawyer you want, to know what it is that you really want out of the process
Alex Hunt:
And when it comes time to determine your trial strategy, and that's not something necessarily that you can get from the lawyer from the outset in the consultation, the lawyer needs to know the case, they need to learn about you, they need to learn about the facts, they need to hear what the other side is going to say, but when it comes time for trial prep, it's important that the lawyer is able to lay out a number of different paths that the case can take. And so maybe that's a Silver plan, a Gold plan, a Platinum plan.
And maybe in the Platinum plan you're deposing witnesses and you're spinning records and you're going all in on discovery disputes. The Silver plan might be if somebody knows that they have a smaller estate or they're particularly adverse to litigation and they really don't want to be in court, they know that, "Try to limit the amount of times that we're going to be going in for discovery disputes. I maybe don't have the money that I would need to do a deposition." A good lawyer is going to be able to explain those different paths and how it's going to be able to impact how it's going to impact your case.
David C. Adams:
You're exactly right about that. An oral deposition is a great example of something that is probably always going to be in the Platinum plan in terms of getting prepared for trial, like you said, discovery issues and maybe subpoenaing records.
I would also say witness preparation, right? I mean if you want to be really, really prepared for trial, you probably want to sit down with your client who's going to arguably be the star witness a time or two before trial. And maybe in other cases the client says, "Look, we've got to do this. I know I got to testify, but I don't want to spend 10, 12, 15 hours practicing beforehand because I just don't have the money for it." But you're right, you do have to lay out those different options for the client and then let them choose.
I think when talking about how to choose the right lawyer, I think there's probably a lot of lawyers that don't lay out those options as clearly for the clients and probably make them feel like, "You got to choose this. You got to choose that." And unfortunately, as we both know, there's a lot of lawyers out there who will sell the Platinum plan as an only way because that means a fatter bottom line for them.
Alex Hunt:
Well, sure. And there are folks out there that don't have the funds or don't wish to spend the funds for the Platinum plan. They don't want to do a whole bunch of depositions or they can't do a whole bunch of depositions. Those folks deserve lawyers too.
David C. Adams:
Sure.
Alex Hunt:
And so if there's a lower cost option that's still going to ensure that they're represented in their interests are protected, then they deserve to hear about that.
So let me get into the second tip for how to choose the right divorce lawyer, and that's about availability and responsiveness. The number one complaint that the ethical body, that disciplinary body that oversees lawyers in Texas, the number one complaint that they get is that their lawyer is not responsive, their lawyer is not available.
So when you're looking for a lawyer, you want to see somebody that is quick to respond to you, somebody that can make guarantees, In our office, we guarantee that we're going to get you a response within 24 hours. A lot of lawyers, and especially clients that come to us and they're on their, maybe their second or their third lawyer, they'll be surprised when they get a response from us within 24 hours or less. Most of the time we're able to get to people the same day, because they're used to their lawyer taking several days or a week to get back to them. That shouldn't be the case.
We understand that this is the most important thing that is happening in our clients' lives at this particular time. You're going through a divorce, you're splitting up assets, you don't know what's going to happen with your kids. You need to have access to the person that's supposed to be supporting you through that.
And so it's important to ask questions about, "What is the response time that I can expect from you? I know that you're a trial lawyer, I know that you're in court all the time, but how can you ensure that my inquiries are going to be answered?" And part of that is, what does a person's team look like? Do they have a paralegal behind them? Do they have other attorneys in the office? What's the best way to contact them? Email? Phone? In-person meetings? Ask those questions from the outset because what you don't want to do is put down a big retainer, engage in the process, and then you try to call your lawyer on Monday and it's Wednesday and you're looking at your watch and saying, "Where's my lawyer? Can't they at least tell me 'I'm in court. I can't get back to you'?" So that's especially important in our office, is getting back to our clients timely.
David C. Adams:
Absolutely. And I think you said it well, a lot of that is about the support staff that you have around you. I mean, if you're a litigator and you're in mediation one day, all day, and the next day you're in court all day, it's going to be next to impossible for you to personally answer every question or every need that a client might have on another case when you're doing those things. But that's why you need trustworthy and knowledgeable support staff who can reach out, at least let them know, "Hey, the lawyer's busy today. He's got X, Y, & Z going on. Here's what I know, or here's what I can tell you. Here's where we're at with your case and they'll get back to you." I think in a lot of those cases, it's really just about letting people know that you haven't forgotten about them, that they're still important.
And I think not only is that about staff, but I also think it's about the process. I mean, some people have their workflow set up in such a way so that they can get to all those emails and they can get to all those communications on a regular basis so that everybody gets touched and feels important as opposed to only prioritizing the things that are right on the eve of a trial or right on the eve of a mediation. And so I think that workflow and priorities is important too.
Alex Hunt:
Right. 100%. There's going to be other things that take up your lawyer's time. When you're in court, you want your lawyer to be dedicated to you. You don't want them answering a whole bunch of emails and phone calls from other people. So you have to understand, we are trial lawyers and there might be a little bit of a delay, but you don't want days or weeks to go by.
Number three, honesty. There are honest lawyers. Tell us a little bit about that.
David C. Adams:
I think honesty is important. I think honesty for a lawyer can kind of come out in a couple of different ways. I think one of the ways that it comes out is I think you want a lawyer who's going to be honest with you about your case. I mean, some of the most difficult conversations that I have to have with a client is to say, "Hey, I hear the concern that you're expressing. But I think if we take that and we air that out in court, I don't know how successful that that's really going to be." And that's a hard conversation to have. People often don't necessarily want to hear that. There are lawyers I know out there because I will encounter them on the other sides of my cases who I think clearly have not had that conversation with a client because the client seems... The opposing party will seem very confident in court that the story that they're telling, that they're justified and that it's a winner. And it seems obvious to me that nobody must have had that hard conversation with them.
And I guess if you're their lawyer, it's not your life, it's not your kids, it's not your marriage. So if it's not a winner, they're probably going to get paid either way. But that's why to me, I think it's important to have that honest conversation with a client about the things that they might want to pursue or the narrative that they might want to tell in court and what you think their legitimate chances are, what you think the legitimate outcomes might be.
Alex Hunt:
Sometimes it's just about taking a look at the system that is set up, and that's a conversation for another podcast, is there are certainly things in the Texas family law system that I disagree with and I think should be changed.
But I'm not a legislator, I'm a lawyer. And so our job is to be brokers within the system that we have trained and experienced throughout our time as a lawyer and we've learned how to paint a picture for a judge or a jury. There will be times when there are facts and there are stories that we become aware of about our client's circumstances and we have to tell them, "I believe you, but the judge is going to have this case for maybe four hours, or a jury is going to hear this case over the course of two days. They're going to see this very small portion of your life and it's not going to play well and it's just the way that it is."
Or if it's child support, we're subject to child support calculations and folks just say, "Well, the other side makes a whole bunch of money."
"Well, this is the system that we have. I'm not in the business of being a policymaker. I have to live within the system that we have. I can navigate it and I can guide you through it and I can get you the best possible result." So it's being honest about what the constraints of the system are and how we can navigate within it.
David C. Adams:
That's absolutely right.
Alex Hunt:
So number four is the team approach. And this, we spoke about this a little bit on availability and responsiveness, but it's so important that I wanted to touch on it because a lot of times we'll go up against folks that are solo attorneys, and we will have a trial that will maybe be a week or two and I see the solo attorneys struggling to keep up because they might have 30, 40, 50 other cases and they're having to decide, "Am I going to focus on the other cases?" And the clients that are not stopping emailing me, not stopping calling me, their lives are not stopping when they're in a trial. Or are they focus on the task at hand, which is the person that's sitting next to them at the counsel table in the middle of a trial.
It's moments like that when it's important to decide, "Am I okay with having a solo attorney understanding that there's going to be some delay and there might be some times when my case moves to the back burner?" Or you want a team approach where you know that you're always going to get the attention that your case deserves?
And so at Hunt Law Firm, that's what we've tried to build. We've got 10 attorneys. So David, if you're in trial, you've got an associate attorney, Kay Rush, who will step in and can answer questions and can provide legal guidance. And if, say, you and Kay are both in litigation or you're both in disposed, then you've got an attorney, Misty Patel, who will be able to provide an answer if she can or can guide that question to another of the 10 attorneys that are in our office.
David C. Adams:
Right. You make a great point. And the bottom line with that is that when you're at a firm that has multiple lawyers and many different support staff, you got more resources so that if there's an issue... I mean most cases, most cases don't actually go to trial, but when they do, you need all hands on deck and you want the lead litigator on that case to really be able to focus, which means sometimes you need other people to be able to step in and fill in those gaps when those things do happen. And when you have more resources like we do, it's a lot easier for us to do that than it is for a solo practitioner.
Alex Hunt:
Well, and just think about the amount of times that on our internal messaging system will go and pop in and we've got all of the attorneys, all the support staff on a messaging board and we can say, "Has anybody been in this court? Do you know how the judge is going to react to this situation? Has anybody seen this before in court?" You've got a variety of different experiences, folks that have had different clients in different situations, and that is absolutely invaluable because more often than not, we're not seeing something for the first time. If we ask about a particular situation, we think that it's this novel idea. We can usually go and talk to one of our colleagues and they say, "Yeah, last week, I was just in that court and I had that exact situation and this is how the court ruled on it. And so if it's an unfavorable ruling, we'll know how to adjust our strategy."
So having a team approach, I can't stress enough just how important that is.
David C. Adams:
Yeah, the intelligence and the information sharing that you can do in that environment, it really does make a difference.
Alex Hunt:
All right. Tip number five for how to choose the right divorce lawyer, David, is communication and compatibility with your lawyer.
David C. Adams:
Yeah. I think it's really important when you do go to sit down with a lawyer that you think about how they communicate, what their communication style is, maybe even a little bit their personality and what yours is. If your lawyer is the hang-them-high scorched earth type approach and that's maybe they have a little bit more of an aggressive communication style, that's probably not going to work for you if you're somebody that's more of a compromise type of a person.
And while you may think, "Because I'm that way, I need somebody who's really going to go in there and put the hammer down," that makes some sense, but I think that when you think about how often long-term, a lot of times these cases, unless there's a settlement in the works, mean cases can go on for months, sometimes years. And when they do, if the relationship between you and your lawyer and the way you two look at things and approach things and how you communicate that, if they're not, to me, more similar than they are different, that can create a lot of opportunities for the two of you to not communicate effectively, to think that the outcome is going to be this way or that way when the other person's thinking and preparing to do the opposite. And so I think people ought to maybe more carefully think about trying to find an attorney that they think is competent, but that probably is more similar to them and maybe how they approach the world than not.
Alex Hunt:
Absolutely. Our next tip, how to choose the right divorce lawyer, is about experience and specialization. This in particular is one of the reasons why at our firm we specialize or we focus on family law. We have family law and we do a little bit of estate planning as a value-added service to our clients, but I would tell folks to avoid a jack-of-all-trades, person that does criminal law, that does immigration law, they do family law, but it's just a small piece of what they do. There are so many intricacies and nuances in family law. And within family law you've got divorce, custody, adoptions, name changes, suits affecting the parent-child relationship, adjudications of paternity. There are specializations within family law. So you want to have somebody that day in and day out knows the family court system, knows the judges, knows the Texas Family Code and isn't distracted by a criminal case that pops up or an immigration law case. You want somebody who knows family law and can get deep into the nuances of family law.
David C. Adams:
That's exactly right. I mean, just candidly myself, I've encountered very few lawyers that I know practice in multiple areas that feel like are really competent family law attorneys. It's not impossible, but I think the general rule like you just said is it's just it's hard. There's a lot going on in family law, and I'm sure there's a lot going on in the other areas of the law and just it makes it really hard for somebody to come in when you're practicing all those different things and try to specialize in.
And I think you're exactly right, and I do think one thing to consider when you're thinking about how to find the right attorney for you is to maybe think about what's more important in your case. Not every case will have it, but many cases, especially divorce cases are going to have a property element. How do we divide the community estate? And then there's going to be an element about custody of children are involved. And a lot of times, those two areas are very different. And especially if it's a complex community estate, the lawyers that specialize in that area versus the lawyers who specialize in contested child custody issues are also somewhat different.
And so you might want to think about, which thing do I think is more complicated? And that's a good conversation to have with your potential lawyer when you meet with them, right, if you don't know which one is more complicated. But maybe to try to ask questions to try to figure that out because I do think that those two areas of the family law can be very different and are important if you have a complex property case or if you have a complex custody case to make sure you find a family lawyer who's very proficient in that particular area.
Alex Hunt:
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's important when you're talking about the right experience within family laws, you want somebody that also knows what it's like to be in court, knows how to be effective in court, knows how to run a trial from start to finish and knows how to win that trial. You don't want to have a lawyer that, although all they do is family law, as soon as they get into the courtroom, they're like a fish out of water. You want somebody with some experience actually leading and winning a custody case, a property case. Whatever it is that's going to be the main crux of your divorce case, you want to have somebody with experience in those areas.
David C. Adams:
That's absolutely right. There are lawyers out there who will take in cases, and because most cases don't go to final trial, will take a case. And as soon as that case gets set for final trial, will essentially break up with their client, withdraw, and then pass that off to somebody else because they're not comfortable doing that kind of work. And that's not something they're going to tell you in the consultation, but that's definitely something that you want to make sure that the attorney that you choose can do that and go the distance if you need it.
Alex Hunt:
Okay. Number seven, we want to make sure that they're financially a right fit. How do you know if your lawyer is financially the right fit?
David C. Adams:
Well, I think one of the most important things to frame more question to figure out, couple of important things to know is, what kind of retainer do they charge? I think another important thing to know is, what kind of hourly rate do they charge? Maybe finally, and our firm has a particular way of billing. Not all attorneys bill in the same way. Everybody usually bills on some sort of an hourly rate, but the minute increments that you bill in is different at different firms. I know that I've seen other firms where they bill in 0.25, quarter-hour increments. So if they do five minutes worth of work on your case, you're going to pay for 15 minutes no matter what. That's not what our firm does. We bill in smaller increments to try to make sure that we're essentially billing for as little time over what we've actually done as possible so that we can make sure that we keep client bills down, but I do think that that's important.
I will say one thing about retainers. I think it's important to ask an attorney how much they charge in retainer. I also think it's important to ask them what they do with retainers and what their retainer policy is because I know that I have clients who will come to me who are switching attorneys and they'll tell me, "Hey, I gave my former lawyer $10,000. And I'm pretty sure they've only given me $5,000 worth of bills and work. But I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to get that money back." And that should never happen. You definitely want to ask about that. I might even ask the question, "Hey, how often do you give money back to your clients or former clients at the end of a case?"
Alex Hunt:
Right. Yeah, if somebody says that they do a non-refundable deposit, which means you give them $10,000 and the next day you fire them or you say, "I want my money back," and they say, "Nope, sorry, I get to keep your $10,000 even though I did no work," run as fast as possible.
David C. Adams:
Absolutely.
Alex Hunt:
Next up, number eight, the next tip for how to choose the right divorce lawyer is reputation. And there's a number of different ways, and we're going to have a part two in a few months where you're going to come back. We're going to talk about the right questions to ask in your initial consultation. I think that's one way to figure out the reputation of the person, is just to ask what organizations they're a part of, how long they've been doing family law, how many cases they've done, how many cases they've done in the particular county in which your case is in.
But there's things that you can do even before the initial consultation. You can go and look at the reviews of the firm, you could see what other clients have said. You can look at the person's online presence. In addition to websites, there are a lot of aggregators out there, Justia and Avvo, where you can not only see reviews from clients, but you can see organizations that the person is part of. You could see their educational history. Do some due diligence on the person that you're about to sit down with and say, "Who is this person that's sitting across the table from me? And what is their reputation like in the community?"
And then if you know other lawyers, whether they be family lawyers or not, it's entirely possible that they know somebody or they know somebody who knows somebody that knows that lawyer and can give you an idea about whether that is somebody that has a reputation as a good trial lawyer, as an honest lawyer, and as somebody who's respected within the community.
David C. Adams:
Absolutely. I couldn't agree more with everything you just said. And I would also maybe add, I think an interesting question I've been asked a few times in consultations and to ask a lawyer that you're trying to figure out what their reputation is to say, "What do you think other lawyers who have you as opposing counsel, what would they say about you?" Because I think while you got to take that with a grain of salt, but most lawyers would probably answer that question pretty quickly and probably fairly honestly with what they think other people would say. And I think that could tell you a lot.
Alex Hunt:
Sure. And for me, if it was me that was looking for a divorce lawyer, I would want to know, "Does this person know the particular court that my case might land in? Do they know the judges?" And I don't mean, are they having coffee in the judge's chambers every Friday or anything like that?
David C. Adams:
Although that would be good.
Alex Hunt:
Sure.
David C. Adams:
Right?
Alex Hunt:
I mean, do they know this judge? Do they have a relationship with this judge in the courtroom or outside the courtroom? Do they see them at bar association events? And do they know what this judge likes in the courtroom? Do they know what this judge doesn't like in the courtroom? And do they know how this judge rules an important issues that are going to affect my case? Because if they do, then that's going to help tailor their approach to your particular case.
David C. Adams:
That's right.
Alex Hunt:
If they don't, they're going into that courtroom a completely blank slate, and they have no way of knowing the way that judge approaches cases at all. "Is this going to be an aggressive judge? Is this going to be a judge that likes to really have ideas thought out well? Or is this a judge that's going to say, 'Hey, I want an hour or two on your case, no more, no less'?"
David C. Adams:
Right.
Alex Hunt:
It's really important to know who the particular judge is. The last tip that we have on how to choose the right divorce lawyer is about the approach of the lawyer and the strategy.
We talked in show prep. We don't necessarily know when a potential new client comes into our office and we're sitting down with them for the first time. We might not know the strategy, but we should be able to ask the right questions and tailor our approach after getting some of that information, give them a little bit of a taste of where we might be going.
David C. Adams:
That's exactly right. I like to say it. I feel like when I do consultations and clients come to me, it's an educational process. I'm the one who knows the process and I'm the one that knows the different angles. I may not know their story, but after they give me some of the facts, I should be able to... I think you used the word earlier, menu. I should be able to lay out a menu, different paths that we could go down to try to help us formulate a strategy and then let them know, "Hey, we could go down this path. We could go down that path. We could pursue this argument or that argument or this claim or that claim," and then try to figure out where they're comfortable. Because at the end of the day, it's their bunny, it's their family, it's their children. They're the ones that need to feel comfortable and satisfied at the end of this process with all those special, intimate things.
And the only way I feel like you can hope to get to that place is by educating them and empowering them with the information that they need that they don't have about the process and the strategies and the paths. And if you can do that, then you empower them to be able to make a good choice for themselves.
Alex Hunt:
Absolutely. Well, David, thank you so much for joining us. This was really helpful. And like I mentioned earlier, we're going to come back in a couple months to do part two, and that's the questions that you should be asking in and before your initial consultation with your divorce lawyer to find the right fit.
David C. Adams:
Okay, great.
Alex Hunt:
My name is Alex Hunt. We were joined by David Adams at Hunt Law Firm. If you'd like to find us, you can see our website at familylawyerkaty.com. You can call our office at 832-315-5494. If you're watching this on YouTube, please like the video. Subscribe so you'll get our future podcasts. And if you're listening to this on Apple Podcasts or on Spotify, please subscribe, follow us, give us five-stars. We'd appreciate it. See you next time.